Name: ASL - Mainstage Sessions with UKG, Larry Miller of Jordan Brand, and Trek Bicycles
Uploaded: 2026-04-23T19:30:12.830Z
Duration: 1 h 49 min 20 s
Description: ASL - Mainstage Sessions with UKG, Larry Miller of Jordan Brand, and Trek Bicycles

Transcript for "ASL - Mainstage Sessions with UKG, Larry Miller of Jordan Brand, and Trek Bicycles": Say, who did you think you are to have a chance? You're the one from a place where everyone knows your face. They come and go waving in all the sun. Please welcome CEO of UKG, Jennifer Morgan, and global CEO of Great Place to Work, Michael c Bush. See you, everybody. Good morning, everybody. Good morning. Like, day three in Vegas, you're still here. Your pockets are probably a little lighter, but you're still here. So good to see you. Jill and Morgan. Michael Bush? Yeah. I always love spending time with you. Well, we're about to do it. Alright. We're about to do it. Good. So, as you travel around the world, talking to CEOs all around the world, I know the lead topic is AI transformation. What what are they talking about, you know, when they're thinking about the AI feature? So when I think about, the job of a CEO, you know this. Right now, I think every CEO is trying to learn. I think that a big job is to be the chief learner of the company. They're trying to understand and get as much insight as possible around what's happening in their business, you know, what's going on outside the four walls. And then they've they have to make decisions faster than ever before. Because the world is moving at this crazy exponential pace and to move fast, you have to have focus. You can't you have to focus on the vital few things versus the futile money. So you gotta have really strong focus. You don't wanna make the wrong bets and you gotta grow. And so the CEO's job is, I think, harder than it's ever been, especially in technology and the world that I'm in. But then on the other side, you have an organization and people who do not move at this exponential pace that, you know, the technology is moving today. And so there's this kind of there's this gap between the potential, the reality, how fast business is moving. You could be disruptive. Your competitors are are are moving just as fast. And you have to bring along an organization and people who there is no new chip inside of us. We still operate and think the same way. And that's really hard, because you almost have to break things in your organization and put them back together in order to take advantage of the opportunity you have. And that's why I think I think right now is it's an exciting time in technology for sure. But I think the role of the Chief People Officer, the Chief Human Resources Officer, at least for me, is has be like, that role is completely turning on its head. Because the the relationship between the CEO, the head of, you know, your tech your head your CTO, your CIO, and your head of people, that is a really important trifecta today. And this is where one of the things I'm really leaning on in my organization is I need, you know, that leadership team to really help me think through, alright, here's the opportunity for the business. If we do these things, we have this opportunity to differentiate. Here's how we're going to, you know, move faster and leapfrog. How do I bring everybody along? What do I need to do? What are the changes I need to make? Because I don't have eighteen months to make incremental changes. This is hard. Yeah. You know, Jen, the you just mentioned how many CHROs, HR people in the room let me hear you? You know, so these are some real people. I know. That's why I'm here. You know, they they I need some therapy. Well, you know you know, they'll lay you out on the couch. They'll tell you all about it. Okay. Take it from me. Well, you might you act as my therapist at least at times. Alright. And, you know, when I think about when I think about them is COVID. Mhmm. They managed through that. Yeah. Okay. And then they got to exhale Mhmm. And then AI. Right. Okay. Just when it seemed like things were calming down, it it's just gotten more more insane. So just wanna give them a round of applause, people Yes. For what they do every day. And then, you know, Jim, after you, you know, we live a similar life, you know, on the road. And, and so you you you go and you you talk to a CEO, talk to a CHRO, and you did your best job of listening, you know, in that moment. But for me, the listening really happens on the plan Yeah. Where I'm just reflecting Totally. Reflecting and thinking about what we can do to help. Yes. And, on the incredible dataset you sit on top of, you know, as you as you're sitting there and thinking about what you heard more deeply, what do you think are some of the opportunities? Yeah. So a little bit about, UKG. So we the easiest way to I can say HR, payroll, workforce management, but the way I like to describe us is most every good or service that we consume on a daily basis is most likely delivered by a worker who runs on UKG, who is scheduled, who receives their pay, who is engaged, with UKG's software, our platform. And so that's something I'm really, really proud of because the majority of the workforce is frontline. So, you know, nurses don't get scheduled, people don't show up in stores. Know. I mean, we play a really, really vital role. We do that across 80,000 organizations of all sizes. And because of that, Michael, we see a lot. And it's more than payroll or hires or or, you know, fire it's a lot more than that. It's what's happening in the moment. And you all know this better than anybody, but we sit in that kind of we have a structural structural advantage because as you all know, frontline work is different. Right? Everything everything from how you recruit to the to the the the, connectivity of time and pay and how important that is. But the flow of work happens really, really fast. There's a different velocity. There's a lot of disruption and change, and it's really hard for companies to get it right, to to really understand, okay, here's my demand, here are the people I have, how do I put that together so everybody's happy. So the P and L looks great, the business runs perfectly, and every person loves their their schedule, their shift, their job, and they're getting what they need. That's really hard to do. And so what we've done is we've we actually have launched something we call the workforce intelligence hub, which really brings all of that real time insight to the surface for a company. I'm always amazed at how how much more is happening beneath the surface that, executives don't necessarily know, especially out in that front line. So we have really because we've been in this business for fifty years and, you know, we continue to sell applications that do what I just described, we see a lot. And so we help companies and CEOs and CHROs and CFOs understand what's going on in real time because you have to have an understanding and you have to be in a moment of action to be able to actually use AI. And so by launching this, it's really helping our CEOs and and C suite understand what's going on beneath the surface, number one, in their own business. Number two is, as a CEO, I'm always trying to understand, you know, it's earnings week this week. A lot of tech companies out there with their earnings. I'm always trying to understand what's going on in my industry. Right? What's happening, all that. Every CEO is trying to do the same whether it's retail, health care, etcetera. So we have benchmarks that we share because you you wanna understand, hey, I have an attrition problem. Are my wages competitive in retail? And it also might be a benchmark you need geographically because you're competing for talent in other industries as well. So bringing that to the surface for our companies to be able to make sure they take full advantage of that real time positioning to take action is important. So that's one area for us. And then the second is really kind of that the dynamism and the dynamic operations around the workforce is something we understand really well. So our opportunity my opportunity as a CEO is almost recreating the category we started around workforce management. So now companies should be able to, in real time, see exactly what's happening out on out in the plant, out in the store, in the hospital, so that you are looking at things like your revenue or your dynamically, you can see your whole workforce. You can see, okay, here are the folks that are working right now. Here are the folks about to head into overtime. We don't want that to happen because that's where, you know, we're not optimizing. And they're not gonna be happy if they're working too much overtime. Here's unused capacity. I might have a compliance issue over here if these folks don't take their meal break. Taking all of that real time fast moving, understand it, apply AI, think about how that frees up the supervisor and the manager to actually be with their people, be in front of customers. Because the front line is the window pane to the patient, the consumer, the constituent. And so we're excited because we think there's so much opportunity in changing how everybody's talking about workforce AI. Most of the talk, Michael, as you know, has been in the white collar workforce. Nobody and this is what I'm excited to talk about today. Nobody is talking about, what does it mean for the worker? I've talked about it for the C suite. I've talked about it for the manager. But we should talk about what it means for the worker. Yeah. You know, we, had a beautiful moment yesterday of bringing up frontline workers Yes. Here at Resort World in Hilton. And and, just on their own, this room stood up and just honored them. Totally. And it wasn't just they were worried about, you know, getting good food at night. Right. You know, they they they just felt it. You know? They they felt that moment. And the reality is those of us who are, white collar workers, knowledge workers, if we all took tomorrow off, the world would keep spinning. Totally. If all the frontline workers took tomorrow off, it would stop. It would absolutely stop. And and so I love the double down opportunity here and what we could do for a group of people largely ignored. Yeah. I'm not gonna leave anybody out, but, the capability of being able to to do something, for them. And I watch, Bloomberg every day. Yeah. And, somebody just had to turn their phone off. But the the, Good year. Yeah. This year is good. This yeah. I said, yeah. This is why you know? But, I watch Bloomberg every day. Mhmm. You know? You know? I started to no matter where I am in the world, I start my day with it and, and end my day with it just to know what's going on Yeah. In in, the world that I live in, and I care about the business world. And when it comes to AI, you know, and and transformation, hear a lot about gotta have the tech solutions, gotta have the business case. And then somebody will mention the people part. And I listen to the interview. They never get to the people part. Yes. You know, it it's just one and two and and and not the third. And so as you're leading, you know, a a a a large tech company, just wanna hear your thoughts on on that last part. So I'm gonna I'm gonna hit that on a couple because I'm I'm learning as I we're all learning as we go. Yeah. So I'm gonna talk about it from the dimension of what I've learned as a CEO, what I am learning from my employees about what I need to be doing more of and and better. And then I wanna talk about frontline. Yeah. So as the CEO leading through kind of everything that every all of us are going through right now, one of the things I've I've really learned is over communicating. You have to over communicate. You have to treat people like adults and and not use corporate speak when you're explaining, you know, changes you're making in your organization, what the opportunity is for AI. Like people like people watch the news. Okay? And when you're not explaining it and explaining the why, that's when the narratives the alternative narratives begin. And as a CEO, you have to move with such speed and focus that you can't afford to have false alternative narratives that are out there that distract everybody and distract the opportunity to move fast. And so what I've learned is, like, radical transparency with a heart, but radical transparency with what's happening in the business, why is it happening, not using corporate speak, and bringing perspective. One of the things I've learned as a CEO is sometimes because I'm moving so fast, I can see everything across the company. And so I am blessed with a perspective of what's happening that nobody else can see at my level. And so sometimes I take for granted, like, I'll see the progress and I feel great about it. And I'm like, awesome. We're we're doing great over here or I see a challenge over there. But I see it all and everybody doesn't see it all. And part of what you have to in in in the midst of all this change that's happening, if all you're talking about this is what I found and this is what I've learned. If all you're talking about is the change and the why, gotta do that, without constantly bringing the perspective of what you're seeing inside and outside the company and reminding people of all the progress you're making, people people doubt your ability to be as successful as you may see. And so you you almost have to have like, you have to address and acknowledge, like, it's tough. We're making changes. You know? Lots of companies are are are completely reshaping their orgs. There there there's layoffs. All that stuff's happening. But it doesn't mean that they're not doing the right things and aren't set up for success. Both of those things can be true at once. And so it's real and this is where this group of people comes in. It's so important because as a CEO, you get all kinds of advice from your team. And I have a I have, like, a Motley crew, which I love. And I created it that way because I have, you know, one one leader who will say, you shouldn't say this. Like, this is gonna scare everybody. And another who is like, no. You need to be open. And as a CEO, you have to just you have to have conviction and stick to your guns. And the people leaders who are next to me, it's just critical because I just think you should lean into that. Like, in a time like this, people need to hear a lot of what I just discussed. So your role is really, really important more than ever. A lot of times, the CFO's voice in the team. Right? Because, like, it's tough. You got numbers to make. It's it's hard out there. But on the other end of the table, like, I I've said this to my team, like, I need the chief people officer banging the table around what are we not thinking about, what do we gotta get right, how do we have to think about how we communicate and and change the org and how we're working. So that's from the CEO perspective. And I talked about it from the from the worker perspective. From the frontline perspective, I just think it's fascinating that when we read the you know, it's almost like when we watch the news of Bloomberg's and CNBC, like, we're all very fortunate. We have we have these incredible jobs and, you know, you could say that, like, the majority the majority of the workforce is 80% frontline. The rest of us are maybe in a bubble a little bit, right, in terms of kind of what's happening out there yet nobody is talking about what it means to the worker. And so what we've done for fifty years, like, we've had a focus on frontline. You know, we can serve knowledge workers, but, yeah, frontline is just it's it's got its own set of unique needs. And so we're big we're very passionate because we believe that agents and we're we have these agents for frontline workers become the agent becomes the advocate. The agent is now going to empower this frontline worker to finally be able to not, like, react, you know, to something to, you know, here's what what I need you to work the next two weeks. But, hey, you know and interfaces are gone. You know, you're picking up your phone. I need to make an extra $500 between now and the end of the month. Give me the shifts to do it. By the way, here's my school schedule, schedule around this. Hey. I need access to my wages, before my paycheck for the hours I've already worked. Hey. I need flexibility. I need to swap a shift, you know, Tuesday and Thursday next week. And to have that agent then be the advocate back to the company to connect to the thing I talked about a little bit earlier, that actually like, everybody wins. I feel like with the AI discussion, so much of what we talk about is it's gonna be great for certain people and it's gonna be bad for others. We see it as, like, if you get it right everywhere, everybody wins. If the worker gets what they need, what they want and expect, they stay. If the company can keep their workers, then they're going to match the supply and demand. And they're going to do it in a much smoother way versus paying a certain number of people way too much over time and not using you have this barbell effect. And that's going to be great for their customers, their patients, their P and L. And the CEO has you know, and the team has access and insight to everything that's going on. And so we see this as an incredible opportunity for the front line. And, that's what we do and that's what we're excited about. And that's what we are you know, for us, that's that's our opportunity, selfishly speaking as, you know, the CEO. That's our opportunity to, with purpose, do something really exciting Yeah. And be a software company that software is not dying just so everybody knows. It's not going anywhere. You hear about that a lot on the news. But we're excited about about what we do. That was a very long answer. Sorry. That was a great answer. See the therapy session, you guys? I needed to just get that out. You know, and then what happened when you were 11, Jin? Tell me. You know? So, but but here's what's inspiring to me about that, Really inspiring to me. The, you know, we had Ed Bastian, kick off Amazing. You know, this this great experience. And he talked about having the pressure that you have, pressure that I have is a privilege. Absolutely. And it's just like, yes. Totally. It is totally that. And so how do we, you know, respond to that that privilege? And and I think I love the idea of leaning into what we can do, not ten years from now, not five years from now, now. Today. And so that focus on the frontline worker. Let's make their life better. Let's get them the things that we want. Yeah. You know, flexibility, education, more money Yeah. Growth and and all those things, and and provide the tech for them to do that. So in response to, really, the thing that you put at the top of the list, great place to work for the first time in its history, in 2027, will be producing the best places to work for frontline workers. So people, you know, so, you know, Warren Buffett has a saying that when when the tide goes out, you could see who's been skinny dipping. You you know? And some people shouldn't be. Okay? He doesn't say that. I added that part. Oh, okay? You know? But we're about to do that. You know? We're about to do that around I love it, man. Because we're about to elevate and and let the world know who's doing this great and and who's doing this, you know, less great and who's not on the list. Yep. So that, you know, we can actively get in front and take care of these people. The other thing is, you know, you you started in your in your first comments, and you talked about this world that's moving crazy exponentially fast. It's also a world that's Yeah. Okay. Straight up. And Yeah. So everybody in the people business knows that they've got, people who, you know, can start their day feeling great by what they see on their phone, and the other thing can happen. Yeah. Seeing the identical thing depending on the person, their experience, who they are, and and those kinds of things. And and so, you know, we've we've got, one thing that's consistent for everybody who's been sitting in that chair Mhmm. Is this optimism Yeah. Resilience. Yes. You you know, that thing. And so what is it that that that you do two questions. One is, what do you do? You're gonna handle it either order you want. What is it that you do to get yourself psyched up, ready to do something that makes a difference? And what do you expect from your leaders to make sure that people that are working for them that maybe are wavering a bit on the hope part, you know, can have more hope, in the growth that's coming and that it'll affect them too? Yeah. So two things. I think it's really important to understand what's going on outside the four walls of your organization because that context if you don't have context, you can't put yourself in a position to navigate, you know, wherever you need to go. And so for me, I'm always trying to learn. I love meeting like, we met yesterday with several great CEOs and had a great conversation, but I need to be with people. Like, I I gotta be out there. I gotta be I gotta be with my team in front of customers because that's how I learn. You know, yesterday, I was I was walking out of our meeting and I ran into Tai who's the you know, who runs operations and and, you know, HR at Marriott. And we're doing a bunch of really, really cool stuff. And I just love it because he's like, Jen, here's what I'm thinking about. I want you know, we we need to move fast faster on this. I have this idea of that. And I just love those conversations because that context for me. Like, it gives me context of what is important to his workers and his business and, therefore, how we can move faster. So I gotta be with people. I get I get power through being with people. In terms of leaders, I expect the same thing. I expect them to do exactly what I just described because, you know, if you're insular and you don't have if you don't have your own perspective, right, how do you know what you're supposed to be focusing on? And and back to what what I was saying earlier, part of my job is to make sure that I bring that perspective to the company, right, into the people so that they have an understanding and and and you have the credibility and the buy in. You gotta win hearts and minds without perspective. That's hard to do. And so I just I love getting out there because that's what gets me excited. And I just wanna say to this audience, thank you for what you do. You know, I joined this business because I it's a people business, and I love it. I believe in it. I think it's amazing. First of all, you guys have the best energy. I wanna be in front of this audience in any for future public speaking, I do because you all are like, the warmth and the engagement is incredible, and that's what you bring to the the companies that you serve. And I think this is the most exciting time to be a leader in what you do. And I think, you you know, what my advice to you would be pound the table. Right? Like, you have an opportunity to help these companies, to help your CEO move. You have an you have an opportunity to bring that perspective, that context of what's happening in your own company, what's happening outside the four walls, and, you know, what your company needs. Like, you your job is so critical right now, and and I love it. So thank you for what you do, for your warmth. And, Michael, thank you for your leadership. I'm so thrilled that I get to work with you every single day and that, you've been a longtime colleague and friend. So So thank you. Thank you, Jen. This is the collective brain. Yes. Yes. Thank you. So people, please give a warm, great place to work. Thank you to Jen Morgan. Thank you. Please welcome EVP and chief human resources officer at AbbVie, Dee Crum. Well, good morning everyone. Haven't we had just an awesome Great Places to Work Summit, this week? I am sure, many of you are like me. I'm really excited about getting back to the office, sort of elevating our game as we think about culture, inclusion, and transformation, using the tools that we've received this week and the frameworks, the insights, and the data. But also a theme that's really resonated with me this week is the connections. I feel as I go back I'm not going back alone, and that's because of many of the meaningful connections that I've made with people in this room. As I think about the great people, the great work that you're doing, at great organizations, I know that I'm not going back alone. And with all of that greatness that we've had all week, there's still more. I am excited to stand on this stage and to introduce, our next main stage speaker, which is Larry Miller. There we go. Larry is the Chairman of the Advisory Board for Jordan Brands, and I just had in the back, I should have worn my Jordans today, totally missed that opportunity. But he is the Chairman of the Advisory Board for the Jordan Brands, and in just a few moments he will be joined on stage by an award winning, journalist, community builder and podcaster, Ellen Meggert, and they're going to engage in a conversation around how trust fuels transformation. Larry's leadership has driven performance for Jordan Brands for many years, has also driven success as you think about the Portland Trail Blazers, and his leadership is an example of what it takes to shape and to form future ready organizations. He is not only committed to business success, but he is also an advocate for education and for mentorship. He serves on several boards and several councils across the City Of Portland and he is the founder of JUMP, which stands for Justice and Upward Mobility Project. His memoir JUMP tells his story of his rise from the streets of Philadelphia to the highest levels of corporate America. When I think about and I reflect on Larry's story, it reminds me of what I will call a shared responsibility that we all have in this room, and that is to create organizations where individuals can show up and do their best and also be their best authentically. When I think about AbbVie, our purpose is to have a remarkable impact on the patients that we serve around the world through our innovative medicines and our therapies. And we anchor that purpose in our principles. And one of our principles is to ensure that we treat all people, all employees, equally with dignity and with respect. At AbbVie, we honor, we are intentional, we are focused on inclusion and diversity. One, because we know it's the right thing to do. But two, it positions us well in the marketplace to perform, to connect, and to deliver for the patients that we serve around the world. Now when I think about our meaningful relationship with Great Places to Work for all over the years, it has really positioned us to continue to listen, to learn, and to improve our employee experience for the people at AbbVie. Now we are very gracious, we are very thankful for all of the recognition that we have received throughout the years, but we are most proud that we are intentional and we are focused about amplifying our culture day in and day out for our employees. And it's for stories like Larry's, where you see the interconnection of ambition, resilience, and purpose come together. The impact that it has on your organization and on individuals and the community in which you serve. Larry has led with vision across sports, across business, across community, and his story still inspires. And so with that, let us welcome to the stage, Larry Miller and Ellen McGirt. Please welcome chairman of the Jordan brand at Nike, Larry Miller, and editor in chief of design observer, Ellen McGirt. Oh my goodness. Good morning. Good morning. I love you in case no one's told you today. We're going to be talking about all kinds of things, the future of this amazing book. I'm just going to put it here so it can be in the shot. Larry, thank you so much for being here today and joining us. Thank you in particular for giving me a chance to buy some new Jordans. I got these at the WNBA store, which was nice. Then they have a black tongue, which I know to look for. Beautiful. That's an inside joke from the book. We have a lot to get into today, Claire. You've been so busy. But I thought we could talk a little bit about how big the Jordan brand is right now for context about what for what you've been able to accomplish. When you cycled off as leader and moved over to the chair of the brand advisory, it had grown to a $4,000,000,000 brand. I think it's $7,300,000,000 $7,400,000,000 today from twenty twenty five numbers. But it was not guaranteed that it was going to be a success when you got there in 1997. In fact, it was kind of shaky. Could you tell us a little bit about what you're doing these days and that journey, please? Well, first of all, I just want to say thank you for inviting me here. It's amazing look out to see all these incredible faces here. So thank you. Yeah. So the Jordan brand, when we were, starting Jordan as kind of a separate division inside of Nike, The timing couldn't have been worse because it was at the time that Michael Jordan was retiring from the Bulls, for the second time. And, at the last time, actually. Well, last time with the Bulls, he he actually did that one other time. But, but that was the challenge that we had because the formula was, you know, we create this cool shoe. We do some advertising with Spike Lee or Bugs Bunny or someone. And then Michael Jordan wears that shoe 82 games and into the playoffs. That was the formula to sell shoes. And now you're taking a big part of that formula out, because Michael's no longer playing in the shoe. And that's the time we decided, like, hey. We're gonna we're gonna take this logo and create a brand. Actually, there was a lot of, concern, a lot of angst around Nike at the time because the feeling was, hey. It was a good run, but now that Michael's retiring, it's gonna be over. But but there was a a group of us inside of the company that thought there was an opportunity to take that logo and actually create a brand. And so I was asked by, by Michael Jordan and Phil Knight to put a team together and strategies on how we were gonna do that. And, when we started, the business was about 140, dollars 150,000,000. And, now, like you said, it's gonna be $7.8000000000. So we did okay. So, we're going to dig into more about what you know about building a brand, as we go. But I think it's time to shift into your life story, which has you have shared it in a wonderful TEDx talk and in this extraordinary book called Jump as well. And I'm going to read the critical part, if that's okay, that gets us started here. With all of the accomplishments of your career, your mature career and the trust that very serious other brands and executives had in you, you had a secret. And from your book, I flipped from being the straight A student on the right track and jumped on the track to becoming a grade A gangster. You're growing up in West Philadelphia, in a happy middle class home in a community that everybody knew each other. And yet, this is what happened. Can you tell us that story? Yeah. I mean, I I, you know, growing up early on, I was, you know, a smart kid, teacher's pet kind of kid. And my goal was to please teachers and parents. That was every day my goal was, hey, how can I please my parents? How can I please my teachers? But, when I got to be around 12, 13 years old, the pull of the street really started to grab at me. And, before I knew it, I was not looking to please parents and teachers anymore. I was more so looking to impress people in the street. And that led to me joining a gang and getting involved in a lot of, negative activity. When I was 16 years old, I shot another kid in a gang related incident and killed him. I was charged as an adult at 16, with my family was able to pull together enough money to get me an attorney who worked out a deal for me. I pleaded guilty to second degree murder. Was sentenced to four and a half to twenty years. Did the four and a half at a, at a juvenile penitentiary and got into reading and got my GED while I was there and, was really kind of focused on trying to do the right thing when I got out. But I ended up back at the same neighborhood, same environment. And before I knew it, I was pulled back into criminal activity. And, the last time I was arrested, I had five armed robbery charges. And I ended up getting sentenced to four and a half four year four to ten years for that. And when I got to the prison that time, it was a place called Greaterford Penitentiary in, in Pennsylvania. And when I got there, I had already decided at that point that I wanted to change my life. I didn't wanna continue to live that criminal life, but I didn't know how. I didn't know what what I needed to do to try to change my life. So I when I got there, I realized or I found out that they had a program there where you could actually take college classes, inside the jail. I had gotten my GED the first time I was incarcerated, so I was able to to take college classes. And they also had a program where they had trailers outside the jail wall. You could live in those trailers and, you could qualify to move and live in those trailers and leave every day and go to school and just have to be back to the prison by 08:00 at night. When I heard about that program, I was like, well, if I gotta do time, that's probably not a bad way to have to do it. Right? But once I actually was able to get into that program, I really started to believe that I could change my life through education. And, I ended up getting my associate's degree from Montgomery County Community College in Pennsylvania while I was still in that program going back and forth, between the prison and the school. Was able then to transfer my credits, to Temple University, and moved to a halfway house in North Philadelphia. And of of all things to major in as a criminal, I decided to major in accounting. It gets funnier. And and, you know, people ask and I still sometimes I'm like, why would I choose accounting? But one of the things that that drew me to accounting is I'm a true believer in that, in everything in life, balance is important. And it's a key. And, really, accounting is about balancing what goes in versus what comes in versus what goes out. And I guess that's what kind of attracted me to accounting. But, I ended up focusing on getting a degree, in accounting from Temple University. So I want to pause here just for a quick second and dig into what your life in, in incarceration was really like. You didn't just get your GED. You were the class valedictorian. Right? Like, you were really I know. It gets so much better. I I I used to joke about that. Yeah. I was the class valedictorian in the penitentiary. You turned out. Not everyone does. You really turned out. And when by the time you went back in it you you've said many times and you said in the book and by the way, I cannot recommend this enough. There's a lot of people who say that that books are unflinching accounts. This is an unflinching account, and it becomes even more important when you realize just how the story came together and how you decided to tell it. But in the second you said you would not be the person you were today if it wasn't for the second time that you were doing time because of the resources that was there. And this sets up the problem that we're going to be talking about in a minute. Just tell them what you were reading in prison, please. So I, when I when I was incarcerated the first time, I got hooked on reading. That was how I spent my time. And I read everything. You you name it, I read it, because there was a limited library in the prison. So I had to read whatever I could get my hands on. And then, there was a group of us that kinda inside the prison who, had like I I guess you could almost call it a book club because somebody would get a book and and then that book would circulate throughout the prison, because there was only one copy of it. And, you know, if you were if you knew the right people, you could get get that book. And I remember, reading the autobiography of Malcolm X, which, and and the way it would the setup was the lights would go out at 10:00 at night, but there was still a light shining in from the from the hallway. So I'd get up to the bars at night and read with that light. And at one point, I'm reading about Malcolm X doing exactly the same thing that I was doing there. But it was really reading and learning and books that really kinda got me through that part of of prison. And when I, when I got arrested the last time and I and I reference this in the book, but I really do believe it was the best thing that could have happened to me. I would never have said, hey. I think I wanna go to jail, and that'll change my life. But it was really the best thing that could have happened to me because it did allow me and put me in a position where I could change my life. I know, that had I not gotten locked up at that point, that I probably would have ended up, either in jail for life or dead or you know? So it was really a blessing for me to, to get arrested that that second time because it did, allow me to change my life. So you're emerging from this experience, an unlikely accountant with a degree. And you enter the job market, which is sort of hard to imagine now. But actually, that's what happened. And this is where the secret was born. Yeah. So when I was about to graduate, at the time there were what was known as the big eight accounting firms. And, if you were graduating with an accounting degree, from Temple anyway, your goal was to work for one of the big eight. And, I had kind of zeroed in on one which is called Arthur Andersen. And I ended up going there and spending the whole day interviewing with a number of people. And all day in the back of my mind, I'm thinking, should I share my story with these folks? Because, you know, all they knew is I was a young black man about to graduate with honors from Temple University. They weren't interested. I was interested, and that's all they knew. 1980? This was 1981, '82. '82. Okay. So I ended up, like I said, spending the whole day interviewing with a number of people. All day, I'm like, I should share my story with these folks. I wanna come clean with these folks. And so finally, I get to the last person who was the hiring manager, and I decide I'm gonna share my story with him. And so, I kinda start telling him my story and sharing with him. And as I'm talking, I could see his face changing, like, not in a good way. And and, and finally, I got done and he said, he said, wow. That's an amazing story. You know, I'm sure you're gonna do well. He pulled an envelope out of his pocket and he said, he said, I have a offer letter here that I was all ready to give you, but, unfortunately, I can't give it to you now. I wish you the best, but I can't hire you. And at that point, there were a number of things going through my head. The the first one was, this has been a waste of my time. Waste of time and effort and money because, with my criminal record, I'm never gonna get an opportunity to build a professional career. And so I might as well go back to what I know, go back to the streets. But I decided I wasn't gonna give up. I was gonna continue to push forward. But I made a decision at that point that I was not gonna volunteer the information anymore. I wouldn't lie about it if asked. I wouldn't deny it, but I wasn't gonna volunteer it. And for forty years, that's how I built my career. People that I was and I'm close to, I consider close like family, had no clue about my background. And, my daughter, my oldest daughter, for years kept pushing me. Dad, you I gotta keep saying that. She tells me, dad, don't say I pushed you. Say I encouraged you. But so my oldest daughter encouraged me, multiple times to share share this story, and and I kept giving it to Heitzman. I was like, no. I'm not I'm not ready to do that because my concern and over the years, as I was carrying this secret around, it really was wearing on me from a physical perspective. I I had migraines, so bad I ended up in the ER a number of times. I, had nightmares on a regular basis, and this was all, like, the concern and the fear that somehow this story would come out and it would ruin everything I had built up to that point. And I was carrying that anxiety and fear around, all the time. And I was telling her, I'm like, no. I'm not I'm not trying to put this story out there. But she continued to, encourage Encourage you. Almost said it. I almost said it. She encouraged she continued to encourage me and finally I I was like, you know what? She's right. Maybe this story can inspire and provide some hope for people to say that, you know, even though you may be in a situation that's not a good situation right now, you might be incarcerated, but it doesn't mean your life has to be over. And maybe that that people hearing my story would maybe inspire and motivate some folks that, that and and give people some hope. And so she convinced me over the years that, that I should share the story. And her and I worked on it well over ten years, and it took a long time because I was in no hurry. That's the only reason it took as long as it did because I kept like but her and I would get together and, I'd tell stories. She'd ask questions and she would record it and then she'd go back and transcribe it. And we did that for, like I said, well over ten years. And at the end, we had a a document. It wasn't a book. It was all this information and we ended up connecting with a ghostwriter who helped us put it in book form. And, the book came out, about four or five four years or so ago. And, it's been it's been really cathartic for me because, first of all, it lifted this incredible burden off of my shoulders that I've been carrying around, worried and concerned that somehow the story would come out and and ruin everything that I built. But by sharing it on my own terms, I think that that made a major difference for me. And, when we were when I knew we were gonna do this, we'd like, hey. We're we're I'm doing it. I had a list of people that I wanted to make sure they heard it from me versus hearing it some other way. And at the top of that list were Michael Jordan and Phil Knight. And I ended up, during the pandemic, I sent both of them a text and said, hey. Something personal that I'd like to share with you. I'd like to talk to you about. So Phil Knight hits me right back. Hey. Can we do it Monday at such and such time? I'm like, good. MJ, I didn't quite hear from for a little bit. And I think the last time I had told him something personal, I was, like, leaving. So I think he was trying not to hear he didn't wanna hear whatever it was I had to say. So but eventually, we connected. And, so I ended up speaking with Phil Knight first and kinda went through the whole my daughter encouraged me to share this story and, you know, kinda went through it with him. And when I was done, he said he said, you know, when you said something personal, I didn't know what to expect, but I can tell you for sure it wasn't this. He said, but, but I I think your story is not only inspirational, but it's aspirational as well. And, anything I could do to help, I will. And I was like, great. Thank you. The the next day, the next day, I ended up talking to Michael Jordan. And I kinda go through the same thing. Hey. My daughter inspired me to share this story. And and when I was done and this was on a phone call, so I couldn't really see him. This was on a phone call. When I was done, there was silence for a couple of seconds. It felt like a couple hours. And I'm like and then finally, he said, I agree with your daughter. You need to share this story, and anything I could do to help you, I will. And to me, you know, knowing that I had the support of those two really kind of gave me the courage to say, I must be doing the right thing here by sharing this story. And it's been an amazing it's been amazing journey since, since I've shared it. It's opened me up to being involved in trying to help, other people be able to take advantage of opportunities. And that's really, what I've been focused on ever since the story's come out. Well, I thank you for sharing all of that. It's it's a I was really struck when I was reading the book how much it felt like talking to you even though I had not talked to you until after I read the book and that Lila is credited as a cowriter on this, which I didn't realize until two thirds of the way through the book. And then I started it again because I wanted to have the experience of understanding what it was like for your oldest daughter who saw your early struggles. Your younger children were were you were already established by the time they came along, who saw those early struggles and was living in the community, which we're gonna talk about in West Philadelphia too. Yes. Saw how it changed, that she got to have this dialogue with you. That part is the sort of the subtext of this story, and it's courage and building trust and the kind of intimacy that I think it's hard to imagine it working out any other way. Yeah. You know, I, I think that, because it was her, it made it easier for me to in some ways easier. In some ways, it was was a little more challenging, but most way most mostly it was it made it easier because I used to joke with her. I'm like, hey. Whatever I tell you, you still gotta love me no matter what. So so so, it did make it easier. And, you know, it was interesting because the more I kinda shared with her and talked to her, the nightmares stopped, the migraines stopped. And I think it was just getting this burden off of my shoulders that that really helped me. And, and she she did most of the work on the book, so she should get the credit for the book. She did I just talked and told the story, and then, her and the ghostwriter did most of the work. They would come back to me and say, hey. Is this right or is that right? And, but she she really is the, you know, she's she's the spirit and the soul behind what what was done. If it wasn't for her, I wouldn't be sitting here talking to you folks right now. So we've got a video show that we'll tee up in just a minute. But first, I wanted to just tick through some of the extraordinary things that you were able to do even though you were carrying this burden and you were thinking so you were so conflicted about your own path to success. You moved away from accounting and big eight firms and towards branding, and you we worked for the Briars brand and Campbell's. You ended up at Janssen, which has its own apparel, focus. And that's how you got recruited to Nike. And when you got there, I mean, I mean, we think of them now as an apparel giant. Fashion was the f word, as you say, in the world back then. So you had a lot of you were busy. You were building teams. You were moving people off teams who were not effective. You were really ready to go by the time you got there, which is extraordinary. And then you had an opportunity to join the trailblazers. And that was when an interesting dream, this was not a nightmare, came up for you. I'm talking about, of course, the Jackie Robinson dream. This seemed to be the first step of you being able to step into your role as leader and representative. Could Could you tell us about that moment where you got that call? So when, I I a couple of friends of mine invited me to dinner at a Trail Blazers game. And, they have an area there called the Rose Room for sponsors and stuff. Stuff. So I'm having dinner with, two of my friends. One, runs a nonprofit organization in, Portland called Self Enhancement Incorporated, and the other worked for the Trail Blazers. She was a, executive at the team. So we're sitting there having dinner and, and we were talking about the fact that the Trail Blazers had just decided not to renew the form the former president's role and they were looking for to hire somebody. And so my friend says, hey, man. You should throw your name in there. I said, come on, man. I don't know anything about running an NBA team. And the woman who worked for the team, she was like, no. You really should. We're looking for a leader. Blah blah blah. It doesn't have to be somebody who was formerly in a team had a team. So I I finally, they convinced me to meet with the person who was the hiring person for this role, a guy named Todd Lawicki, who I wanna talk about again later. But, so I ended up meeting with Todd, and, we were supposed to be meeting for a drink that turned into, like, a four hour dinner. And by the time we were done, I think we both were really interested at that point. I think he was walking away saying, hey. This guy could be and I was walking away, like, you know what? This could be kinda interesting. Long story short, I ended up, interviewing with Paul Allen a number of times, and, they offered me the job. And, Nike, to their credit, had I because I kinda kept them informed as this was happening. They came back with the counter offer that I could not have asked for anything more. So now I'm really confused because I got the Trail Blazers on one hand, and this is a new experience, something I've never done before. And it's a higher profile job even than what I'm in in the and and so I'm concerned about, like, hey, this is this could bring some stuff out that I don't want to come out. And then on the other hand, I got the Jordan brand. We were, like, just about to crack a billion dollars. Things were kinda really rolling, and I I had a choice to make. And so it came down to I had a weekend. Right? I had by Monday morning, I had to make my decision. So all weekend, I'm going going back and forth. I got people in this year saying, oh, you gotta stay, oh, you gotta take the job. And finally, I woke up Sunday morning, and I was like, man, I I I'm still I was still confused. And there was a place, about forty five minutes or so outside of Portland called Bonneville Hot Springs. And they basically it was a spa that had this hot springs mineral water that you could soak in this hot springs water and then wrap and massage and all that. And I woke up. I was like, you know what? I'm gonna drive up there and just see if that helps me to clear my mind out. The other thing was cell phones didn't work up there at the time. So I was like, I won't have to worry about anybody calling me. So I'm soaking in this mineral water tub and, I pretty much kept convinced myself that, I'm gonna, I'm gonna stay with the Trailblazer. I mean, stay with with the Jordan brand. And, I'm in this tub and then I I closed my eyes and laid back. And in my office at the time, I had a picture of Jackie Robinson, his first day going into the Dodgers locker room. He's opening the door. And that image popped into my head. And I was like, you know, this is an opportunity for me to kinda open a door for folks that look like me. And maybe that won't ever happen again if I don't take advantage of this opportunity. So I I felt like I had to do it. And that was why I made the decision to go to the Trail Blazers and to take the Trail Blazers job because I just wanted folks to see that people who look like me could do a job like that. And and and and it was it was a incredible, incredible experience for me. I so when I go in there, most most teams, the way most NBA teams are are operated, there's someone who runs the business. There's like a president of the business, and then there's someone who runs basketball. There's either a GM or a president of basketball, and the heads of those two reported to the owner. Well, I negotiated when I was gone there that I wanted both to report to me. I wanted both basketball and business because I envisioned this gap that existed and how I could help to close that gap between business and basketball. And really, I I think to me, it was it it it was something that could help the business do better. And I I was able to to do that when I when I was there. But, yeah, it was an incredible experience. I, David Stern actually put me on the labor committee. So I'd helped negotiate contract between the players and the owners, which was kinda weird for me because I was always closer to the players, but I was on the owner's side of the table. So it was, but it was it was it was an incredible experience. I was there for five years. We had an incredible string of sellouts when I got there. We made the playoffs two out of the, three out of the two years that I was there. We had the number one pick when I went there. It was a guy named Greg Oden is who we picked. We picked him over Kevin Durant for folks who know. Alright. Alright. Alright. Alright. Alright. But but the reality is it was the right move for us at that point in time. Greg was a seven foot center. That's what we needed. But he got injured, before he even played a game for us, so it just never materialized. I know. Yeah. We passed on Kevin Durant. Let's talk about what the world needs right now. Let's play that video and start talking jump, shall we? Thanks, team. My conviction makes me who I am. It makes me more than qualified for this job and for every other. It isn't a belief. It's knowledge. This isn't my second chance. It's your first to benefit from my experience, to learn from my perspective, to understand what desire truly is. I want more than to be redeemed. I want to redefine. I wanna change your mind about what you need and what I have to give. This is where hard work comes from. This is how potential is discovered. This is why opportunity is given. This is when you see. This is what conviction looks like. You're a good looking man, Larry Miller. The Justice and Upward Mobility Project. It's only a couple of years old and you have been very busy. What are some of your how did it come together and what are some of the big goals? And I've got a long list here. So, came together because myself and Ken Oliver who's sitting right there Ken, please stand up. So Ken Ken and I met, three years ago now? It's been three years? What time and day was it? Ken and I met and, realized that we had a lot in common. Ken also has, has justice impacted, and we talked a lot about, what we were what kind of things we wanted to do and what kind of impact we wanted to have, in terms of providing hope and opportunities for people that have been involved in the criminal justice system. So we came up with, JUMP, which stands for just Justice and Upward Mobility Project. And our goal is to provide opportunities for people at, to who are coming out of the system, but it's also to change the narrative, to be able to, change the narrative to a point where people are willing to give people an opportunity who've been involved in the criminal justice system. Our goals over the next ten, fifteen years is to try to create a million jobs for people who've been in previously in the system and, to reduce recidivism. And to me, you know, if we can reduce the recidivism rate, that will definitely have an impact on the overall crime rate in this country. One of the things I'm kind of proud of is the fact that the Harvard Business School took my story and created, a case study around it, and they teach it at their executive MBA program. I was actually there the first time they taught it. But one of the incredible things is they built a lot of context around the story. And one of the charts that they included showed that at the time the recidivism rate was seventy seven percent, meaning that within two to three years seventy seven percent of people who got out were back in the system. But it also showed that if people were able to learn a marketable skill set or to get an education of some type where they could come home and and make a livable wage, that that seventy seven percent dropped to 30%. And if people were able to get a bachelor's degree, seventy seven percent dropped to six percent and with the master's degree it was at zero. So to me that's a clear indication that if people are able to somehow learn, some type of marketable skill set, get an education of some kind where they can come home and and, you know, make a livable wage, take care of their families. People don't go back to jail. They don't get in trouble again. And to me, that's how we can reduce the recidivism rate. And so, Jump, we're we're we're working with a number of other entities. We're working with the NFL, with the NBA. We're working with a number of corporate, entities. I was just, recently, announced as co chair of the, Second Chance Coalition under the, Business Roundtable. Jamie Dimon and our IR co chairs of that, I mean, to be to be on a to be a co chair with someone like William Dimon. So so our goal is really to, like I said, to create opportunities for people. And, and and and again, this is not something the way we approach this is not something that's partisan one way or the other. It's about job creation. It's about creating opportunities for people to become taxpayers as opposed to people who our taxes end up taking care of. All all those things are are, we believe, opportunities that exist out there. And, hopefully, you know, we can get more and more people involved in helping us to accomplish this. Let's talk about how we can get more people involved. I just want to hit some of the big pillars here, so we all have them. The goal catalyze access to 1,000,000 jobs for justice impacted youth and adults. City coalitions, 30 by 2,040. Those kinds of partnerships, I think, are essential on the ground with the goal of reducing recidivism in those cities by 50%. And you've got the NBA All Star Partnership. Similarly, you signed a deal with Univision for television stations to run an entertainment apprentice program. That sounds wonderful. There's a SHRM partnership that you should know about, James. I know you're going to be your ears are going to pick up for this one, building out a skills based hiring assessment for employers, helping them identify the talent and the population that you serve. These are trust building exercises. Absolutely. This is something that you know a lot about, building a variant that people know and can trust. I think that's really important. I want to shout out the Sports for Impact and Players Coalition, which is an unusual collaboration I just learned, when I was studying all your work. The alliance is helping player philanthropists focus on issues that really matter in the community on social and racial justice. These people are powerful. They have cash. And they've got big fans out there. So I think this is going to be important. I want to just draw a distinction between the Philadelphia that you grew up in and the cities where the justice impacted potentially youth grow up today. It's so powerful to me that this group of people are thinking about this ecosystem. You grew up on walkable streets. Your dad had a good job. You knew all your neighbor your grandmother lived with you. We know how important that is. Your mother had eight kids and she had a healthy pregnancy. She survived her pregnancies. Her kids were born healthy. And you knew how to be a good student before you knew the value of books in prison. These are the ecosystem elements that we're losing in the advance of things like private prisons, which are promised jobs but not futures. Tell us about the conversations you're having with your friend Jamie Dimon and your friend at the Business Roundtable about the ecosystem that allows people to thrive. Absolutely. It is, about creating, like I said, these opportunities. And to me, the opportunities should start while people are still incarcerated and then continue once they're out. And it's gonna involve is what we're focusing on right now is sports entertainment corporations that we we believe if we can partner and bring, you know, the right athlete groups, the right entertainers, the right corporations together, that we can affect incredible, incredible change. One thing I wanted to mention, kinda a little diff little aside from this before we're done is that, one of the best things that came out of this whole, situation for me is that, my daughter and I were able to meet with the family of the young man that I shot. And, I was able to express to them, how sorry and remorseful I was for what I did. And I regret it every single day. Wish I could go back and undo it, but I can't. And each one of them spoke about how what happened affected them. But at the end of each one of them speaking, they said, but I forgive you. And to me, that was one of the best things that could have happened for me coming out of this. Because over the years, you know, I've tried to forgive myself for it. I've asked God for forgiveness. And to have the family then be willing to forgive me as well, that that was a major, that that that was major for me. That meant meant quite a bit for me. So I encourage everyone to head to the Business Roundtable Second Chance Business Coalition website. There are a lot of data and talking points about the business case for this kind of hiring. But buried in that is the ethical and the moral case of building a better community and a better country, all of those things that you care about. Well, and if you think about, like, JPMorgan Chase, Jamie Dimon, they've hired, over 23,000 people that were formally involved in the criminal justice system. This is the largest bank in the world, and they're willing to take a chance and, and and to hire people and to give people an opportunity. Lowe's company, Lowe's organization, we we've been working with them and they've hired over 53,000 people that were formerly in the criminal justice system. And and and in every one of their in every way that they use to evaluate their employees, the folks that have come through that program outperform the rest of their, employee base. So, again, there are success stories out there of companies, of organizations who have been willing to take that chance to say, hey. We're gonna, you know, give people an opportunity. We're gonna open up opportunities for people. And they've had incredible success with that. So, again, I think, you know, what we're trying to do is to encourage more and more companies, more and more people to, you know, be willing to give folks a chance, be willing to open up and give people opportunities. And and I am confident that people will not be, disappointed if they do. I was at a, conference once and there was a woman who, was speaking. Her boss was there. She had been in the criminal justice system, and she had was working for this company, a major company, doing a great job. And her boss was there and said was talking about the opportunity. And someone asked her, about the opportunity she had been given. And she said I'll never forget this. She said, I don't see this as an opportunity. I see it as a privilege. And to me, if you've got people working for you who see it as a privilege, you're gonna get the absolute best out of those people. I know personally, I would wake up every morning and say, wow. I really get to go and do this as opposed to walking a penitentiary yard. I'm good to go. And and and so to me, you know, you're gonna get incredible incredible, results from people who have been in the system and who see, the opportunity as a privilege. I mean, it doesn't to me as a as a as a leader, someone I wish everybody I that I hired saw it as a privilege to come and work for me. But again, to me, if you if you get folks who feel like that, then you're absolutely, getting people that are gonna give you the best that they've got. That's amazing. Buy the book. It's a leadership book and not so much in disguise. Give it to people, talk about it, expense it. It's totally fine. The accountant says it's fine. Larry, thank you so much for your story and for being here. Trek is a journey, and the company Trek is a journey. It's a journey in people's lives. It's a journey in product. It's a journey in business development. The whole thing is a journey, and, of course, riding a bicycle is a journey. Trek began in '76. There was a huge depression in the bike business at that time. Nobody wanted to buy bikes, but we didn't know that. And it didn't matter, really. What we did have was a concept that worked, and that was build beautiful bicycles. To us, quality meant beauty. It meant exquisite detail. They were beautiful because we made them beautiful, and we wanted them to be beautiful, and we knew what beautiful was. We may have been the first stage rockets that got this thing off the ground, But a journey has to be continued. Please welcome president and CEO of Trek Bicycle, John Burke, and Michael c Bush. John, I'm so sorry we're following that. Yeah. I was It's, like, so bad. You know how I feel about you, Ben. I Yeah. I know. I didn't take it through. Yep. So, John Burke, CEO of Tregg. Currently number 42 on the 100 best, number 23 on the world best list. Round of applause. And, yep. That's an inside joke, but, his CHRO is right here, sitting in the front row. Climbed up on the 100 best list from 93 last year. You know? So so, moving up, second time on the world's best list, you're always at the top of our retail list. Survey scores on every one of the 60 statements improved. It's pretty good. Over every single statement. Yep. And, 90% of your people take the survey. You know, one of the highest, response rates, that on the 100 best list. And you have personally lived the Trek story from the inside. You could let some people know about that and when you entered, the Trek story. Yeah. My dad founded Trek, in 1976. And, I came to work at Trek in 1984. I graduated from college, came home, got my wisdom teeth pulled. And I went to work at Trek the next day. And, part of the first the one day training program was, I got to go out to lunch, and I ordered a beer at lunch. And that was my first mistake at at the bike company. But it it was it was an incredible learning experience because Trek had started in '76 and went all the way up here in 1984. And almost the day I started, it went into this year and a half free fall. And I was a sales rep out in the field, so I got to see all the problems up close. And in retrospect, it was the greatest experience I could ever have. Because? You know, there there's a couple big lessons I learned. And the the number one lesson I learned was was just taking care of the customer. And, you know, we had really poor customer service, and and I was out in the field, and and it was really bad. And, I learned, from other people who were taking care of the customer. I'm like, if I ever get into a position of power, we're gonna make that happen. And today, we're big into NPS score for consumers. Our NPS score is 96 for consumers. I've never seen a score that high. And I was sitting in a in a room in Zurich about three years ago, and and the manager for our German business said, you know, we should focus as much on the score of our wholesale customers as we do the end consumer. Wow. That's really a great idea. And, like, well, NPS doesn't do it for wholesale. And so we created our own, NPS score for wholesale, and we send out a survey to, retailers twice a year, and, our score is 86. So we said we wanna get to 90 by 2030, and we just got to 90, last month. So lesson there to us is it's all about the customer taking care of the customers, whether they're retailers, consumers. We will do whatever it takes to take care of customers. Let's talk about that for a minute because you talked about how you said whenever it got to a position of power and influence Yeah. What what you would do, for the customer. And why is it that your customer support team can now help people with garage door problems? What do they How can they help people with garage door problems, in terms of of calling in, thinking they're calling one place Oh. And perhaps calling another. Okay. So there's this funny story. Our phone number He didn't know I was gonna do that. Our phone number for customer care is almost exactly the same as a garage door opener's customer care. So people problems with their garage door opener, they would call track. And so finally, we got tired of all these people calling us, so we trained ourselves on how to solve the garage door problem. I could go on and on about these stories, but we have this wall of track where we have our 50 best stories of the year, and we flip it every month. We rerank the 50 craziest stories about incredible TReC care. Yeah. Well, I I love that story. It's cool. So thank you for sharing it. You know, you you, were one of one of the businesses in the world that COVID took your demand up, you know, sky high and, which brings its own challenges. And then post COVID, and and things change, and and things go the other way. And and, sometimes customers will feel like either of those times are not a good time to survey because there's tremendous pressure on employees in both cases. Yep. But you continue to to to listen and and to survey your people. And, why did you continue that? What kinds of things have you learned along the way by listening through the booms and and And the bust. I I I go back to I'm running about fifteen years ago. I'm out in the off season when it's lousy in Wisconsin. I don't ride my bike in the morning. I go for a run. And I'm out running, and it's it's maybe early April. And I run out. I do this six mile loop. I run to the church, go around the tree, and I'm coming back. And I see this it starts just pouring. And I see this little girl on a bike, and she's riding towards me. I'm like, wow. She's nuts. And the closer I get to her, I recognize it's Maggie Douglas. It's a friend of the family's. And I say, Maggie, what are you doing riding your bike in the rain? She goes, mister Burke, anyone can ride their bike in the sunshine. And and and anybody can give a survey when things are going great. Aren't we amazing? You know? And I will tell you, and and Larry just told the story, he never becomes who he is without going through the challenges he faced. And if you take a look at Trek over fifty years, we never become the company we are today if we don't go through the challenges. And we've gone through this incredible bike boom, which was actually great for salespeople, brutal for a bunch of other people, then we go through the bike bust, which has been brutal for a bunch of people. And, you know, one of the things about the survey is the survey is the centerpiece of how we run HR. I mean, just think about it. It's an opportunity to listen to all of your employees, what they think, and what kind of feedback they have, and what better time to get their feedback when things aren't going well. And so I think, the survey means more to us than it ever has. And one of the things I've always said about the great places to work survey is we rank it by leader. And the competency of a leader is in direct proportion to their great places to work score. And you can see in the worst of times, we have leaders who are, like, putting up 92, 94, 96, putting up incredibly high scores. And then we have some leaders who, who aren't. And that's a smoke signal for us. And, you know, when you one one of the things you talk about is that it's it's everyone's responsibility. You know? So it's not only your your your leader's responsibility, and you're big on everybody should be treated like an adult. So just like you to talk a little about that and what what you expect from your leaders. Well, I think, you know, at Trec, we all we like to say it's a family company. It is a family company. And the ESOP, our larger one is in the company. Everybody matters. And everybody's part of the problem. Everybody's part of the solution. It's why I always say we're gonna treat you like an adult. Well, part of being an adult is speaking the truth. And that's one of the things that the survey does for us is it speaks the truth. But to me, being an adult is also being a leader. And I always believe this thing that some people think that leadership is all about, are you born with that skill or not? And we're firm believers that you can teach leadership. And now, especially when times are challenging, now's the time for people to stand up. There's a great McCraven saying, be the victor, never the victim. And I can't tell you how often I use that saying. I already use that saying at least twice a week. And especially in difficult times, I want people who can solve puzzles, and I want people to be victors always. The victor, never the victim. And, and one of the most underappreciated parts of leadership is coaching. And I'll always remember I'm watching this Carolina Seattle Seahawk NFL playoff game, and it it might have been ten years ago. And I'm watching this game, and and Seattle's down, like, 31 to nothing with twenty seconds left in the half, and Seattle kicks a field goal. And Pete Carroll's running off the field, and he's just chatting up the players like we're gonna kick some ass. Let's go. And he's down 31 to three. And he's not he's not waiting for the six month performance review. It's now. And and I always think always the victor, never the victim. Let's go. Yeah. Well, the right now, you you're looking ahead, and I know you're about to head to Japan to do some work. And the world's interesting right now in in terms of of things that are going on. And you got a business, you know, full of full of great people and and customers all around the world. What what bets are you making now? Yeah. You know, as as you look forward, where are you, you know, kind of doubling down? I'd say there's two things two places that we're we're making the biggest bets. One is on continuous improvement. There's a story, Trek. I was appointed president of the company in 1997, and we went on to lose money '97, '98, '99. And I hired a guy from GE, Tim Callahan, and he came in and he's like, we're gonna clean up manufacturing, and we're gonna have Kaizen and continuous improvement. And we put together this really organized program, kept track of events like it wasn't optional, and it turned the company around. And then we became a little too smart for ourselves, and we didn't need to keep score of the events, and it was kinda like went like this. And so I step back and I'm like, we need to run that play again. And so we've revitalized our whole continuous improvement program throughout the entire company, And we set a goal for running 1,000 continuous improvement events throughout the entire organization. And I think the number will end up being about 2,500. And it's gotten everybody involved on improving every single thing that we do. So that's the first one. The second one is our supply chain. We stepped back about six months ago when we looked at our supply chain, we benchmarked Toyota. And we really took a look. I saw the statistic of the difference between Toyota and the Volkswagen Group. They make almost the same amount of cars. They do almost the same amount of revenue, and they kinda draw a line. And Toyota makes three times the profit. They have half the inventory, and they have half the employees. And it's all because they simplify everything and they continuously improve everything they do. So at Trek, we always come out with a scorecard and we say, okay. Well, let's create a supply chain scorecard. Well, Sierra, I'm gonna tell you right now. And the way you can understand this is all we need to do is focus on simplifying everything we do and continually to improve everything. And and and we have, there's five things on the scorecard, and Toyota is a 100, Volkswagen Group is a 60, and Trek is a 27. And our goal is from 27 to 40 in calendar year '26 and from 40 to 80 by the end of twenty eight. And just like we set that goal of we're gonna move our NPS from an 86 to a 90 by 2030, we'll hit the number. Yeah. And that will transform the company. Those are the two big bets. Yeah. And the, you know, just seeing Mark sitting here in the front row, which, you know, there's a whole lot we could talk about there. But, we both love Mark and, but a lot of HR leaders here. So we're not gonna do Mark's performance evaluation. Okay. You might be tempted. Okay. But that's not what we're doing. You know, what do you need from HR? And and and what what suggestions do you have for the HR people who are here who support their CEOs? Always the victor, never the victim. Number one. Number two, in these challenging times, what I need from HR is I need you to tell me the things I don't know, and I need you to give me the brutal facts. That's what I need. And that's to me, if HR if you're a CEO and HR isn't, like, your closest adviser, then you're missing an opportunity there. But Mark and I have this thing. There's this whole story, and I and I heard it, like, twenty years ago. And it's a story about this CEO. And the CEO sits on this throne, and people bring out these problems. The guy brings out the problem, and he brings out a problem, and he brings it out, and it's a mouse. And it's like, should the bike be green or blue? And the guy gets the gun and he goes, blue. And and that mouse of a problem is gone. And then they bring another one out and they go, should we have a 2% increase or a 3% increase next year? And the guy goes, three percent. Boom. And he takes care of that one. And then he brings out this big hairy monster of a problem. And he goes, you know, this guy's been working here for three years. He's gotten a bad review two years in a row. He hasn't taken to the coaching. What are we gonna do? He's like, I don't wanna deal with that right now. Put that one away. And we put the big hairy monster back in the closet. And so one of the things that Mark and I do is he has the big hairy monster list for me. And he and I go through it once a week. And he puts it up, and there's usually three to five things on the big hairy monster list. And I don't want those things to stay there very long. Then he shows where they cross out, so he's making me feel good. And, and we go from there. But I I think in these challenging times, candor from HR is really important. Yeah. Well, you you also I mean, you were like the brutal truth. You know? So so the, you know, Mark, I'm he's probably a little nervous when he brings it to you, like anyone would be. I mean, you you guys have, you know, great history. But generally speaking, the, you know, you've got a person who is thinking about their career. Yep. And what what advice do you have for a person weighing keeping a job, delivering brutal truth? Oh. Yeah. Yeah. I think, Any how tos or anything that comes to mind? Yeah. So, I'll never forget this. It was the fifth anniversary of Steve Jobs' passing, and somebody asked Tim Cook what the lesson of Steve's life was. And he thought about it for, like, a quarter of one second. And he goes, oh, that's easy. Because most people put themselves in this box, and they're capable of so much more. And I see that all the time where people put themselves in this box, and they go, well, I don't wanna piss him off, or he's gonna cut my head off or whatever. That's that's your problem. Be a victor and and give your CEO the benefit of the doubt. And there's a way that, you know, HR has such a unique perspective of the business and all the players. The most important part of the business is the team on the field. Yeah. It is by far. And I can just tell you, just an adjustment that we've made in the past eighteen months is how we do leadership reviews. And so HR is a product in itself. And what are you doing to have the absolute best HR department in the world? Like, that's what you own. And I don't care whether you have a good CEO or or he or she is lousy. That doesn't prohibit you from having the absolute best HR department in the world. And there's never ever been a better time to learn than there is today. And so I saw Mark this morning. He told me all these great things he has seen here, and I'm like, okay. I wanna make sure at our next leadership meeting, you give the team the rundown of what you learned here. Because it's all about learning and that's another way that HR can make a massive difference. And if they, you know, what advice do you have for people who are afraid to do that with their CEO? Then they should have a different job. Okay. Alright. So alright. Yeah. So update their LinkedIn profile. You you know? But I I would recommend you get the job and then quit the one you have. You know? There you go. Job first. You know? Get the order right. Yep. Really, really important. You know, one of the things that's been consistent, from the people we've had, sit in the sit in in the chair you're sitting in now, great CEOs just like you, is, they are all optimistic. Yeah. You know, they they they have that. And so, I'd like to ask you a two part question. One is, how do you do it? You know, how do you pull yourself through all you've been through? Yep. Tremendous amount. And then how can leaders do that when they're looking at their teams and seeing some people, for one reason or another, who seem to not have much hope? I think I think there's a couple ways. I I, I interviewed Admiral McCraven years ago and asked him, you know, how he leads in a crisis. And he said, I get to the I get to the office early and I stay late, and I do the absolute best job I can every single day. That's all you can do. And so I took that advice to heart. And for me, that's, that's made a really big difference. But to me, every once in a while, I'll feel sorry for myself and then I'll get a two by four out and I'll hit myself over the head. Because, I mean, you just take a look at how lucky we are to be in the positions that we're in and you take a look at what else is going on in society and what else is going on in the rest of the world, and we're very lucky to be doing what we're doing. And, you know, there's this great, great book called The Founder's Mentality, and a guy, Chris Zook, wrote the book. And he said 85% of a business's opportunities are within their four walls. And sometimes you get a lot of people who wanna look out the window instead of look in the mirror. 85% of the opportunities in the business are looking in the mirror. And that's the deal at Trek, is I want everybody to focus on what we can control. And there there's plenty of work to do on what we control at Trek. We have a long way to go. Yeah. But you're moving up. Every day. Moving up. Every day, we're making progress. Yeah. And on our list as well. John, thanks for coming, you know, spending spending the time with us. And I know a lot about you as a person, tremendous amount of respect for you, and you're here for the world. Yep. John puts a lot more time in than just running this great company in terms of trying to make the world better and and and appreciate that. Any final thoughts for the room? No. I I think, I'll stick with I'll stick with with the with the Steve Jobs one. It's that so many people and it's HR, it's businesses, it's people, is we're all capable of way more than we think. And one of my great lessons this year was the easiest way to improve your business is to improve yourself. The easiest way to improve HR at your company is to improve yourself. There's never been a better time to learn. Okay. I think we'll wrap up with that. Here you go. Please say thank god. For having me. Alright everybody, so, thank you for coming and we've got a tremendous afternoon of programming for you, so go and get to it. Take care everyone. Hold on. Hold on. Sorry. Something I forgot. Very important. We've had people signing for helping people who, this signing right now, who are hearing impaired. And Kim and Kelly, please give them a warm round of applause for their work. Okay. We are not lost peoples. We are resilient, and we will continue with our survival